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This discussion is frightening – look to the anti-clericalism of the USSR – the state took many of the trappings of Christianity and the Tartars and used them to create the cult of personality. The tomb of Lenin was to show that he was incorruptible as a saint. That is your secular inquisition. Seriously. Remove religion entirely and you will leave a vacuum for the state or some kind of snake oil to fill. Look at the Al Gore fanaticism for climate change. Smart people like yourselves should be looking to support the good that religion does – to protect us from the evil that can come from it – not look to its destruction. Homo Sapiens has always had religion and superstition – it is part of us as language. You have it as well. You think you are immune but you are not – you have irrational beliefs you have to struggle to overcome pre-conceived conclusions every day. You would go crazy if your brain did not try to fool you somehow – leave things out
Sweden!? why always Sweden? They are the land of Goldfrapp and ABBA – That place is a utopia compared to the southern United states. I mean I chafe under the yolk of Christianity I see hypocritical actions and liars every day but I would rather Christianity than so many other things that would fill that would fill the vacuum. We should, if you want, work to establish a kinder more secular version of our better religions.
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States throughout history have linked with religious institutions in order to gain power and control over uneducated, naïve populations who often were unable to read or write or do calculations. With the use of physical and psychological means, state and church controlled populations with violence and fear and false hope.
Remove religion entirely and you leave a king or landlord or slave owner without the aid of religious superstitions to do their dastardly deeds.
If one looks only at the “good” religion does without awareness or consideration of unhealthy, manipulative, exploitive, and oppressive actions in the name of some god/s, then one makes ill informed assessments, not only of history, but also of today’s church.
If one looks only at the “good” religion does without awareness or consideration of unhealthy, manipulative, exploitive, and oppressive actions in the name of some god/s, then one makes ill informed assessments, not only of history, but also of today’s church.
I, nor my children, nor my mother, nor my grandmothers were spared beatings by prayers or interventions of religious leaders or followers. Prayers didn’t stop or prevent sexual abuse of children or in the Penn State sex abuse scandal.
Yes, Homo sapiens have histories of spiritual beliefs and practices as demonstrated by archeological and anthropological studies from the Neolithic Age (New Stone Age), starting in about 9,500 BCE to 2,500 BCE. During this time, women played a powerful role in their religious practices because of the mystery of women bleeding every month and not dying, of bearing children and nursing them. Some call this the Age of the Goddess, i.e. “This Sacred Earth: Religion, Nature, Environment” edited by Roger Gottlieb, 1996; “Ecofeminism: Symbolic and Social Connections of the Oppression of Women and the Domination of Nature” by Rosemary Radford Ruether; “Messages from the Past: The World of the Goddess” by Riane Eisler.
I don’t want to bore anyone with a litany of violations of human and nature’s wellbeing by religious doctrine, but to just remind you of The Crusades when illiterate Europeans invaded the Holy Lands to take away Muslim control and to remind you of the advanced culture of Islam that Christians wanted to displace.
Christians murdered, tortured, and mutilated, human beings and destroyed communities, farms, water supplies and industry in the name of their god. Priests and preachers murdered men and women for being witches and some cut off noses of those of another “Christian” faith.
Don’t insult me with pleadings of the “good” religion has done throughout history. Your claims merely reveal your lack of education and failure to recognize atrocities that occur, even today, in the name of some god.
Yes, Sweden is able to maintain a humane and decent culture without interference from religions. They understand morality and ethical behavior without bowing to an un-seeable, un-knowable, un-responding superstition.
Perhaps you “would rather Christianity than so many other things that would fill the vacuum.” You have every right to believe as you do … don’t stuff your faith and beliefs down my throat and get out of my way when teaching children fairy tales instead of science. Keep your god off my money, out of my government, away from my laws.
Your brain may have told you a god made you and everything that is. Well that explains you. Too bad! My brain tells me to look, listen, discuss, learn, explore, experiment, and pay attention to cause and effect. From such observations, develop a hypothesis and test the principle, always keeping in mind that I am not here to control or oppress or dominate or make you happy. I am here to participate in life, with all my faculties, loving and caring for others and myself while being able and willing to stand up to fascism.
The institutions of family, church, community, education, laws, law enforcement, and health care, have interfered with good mental and physical health for far too long.
Homo sapiens did not move out the Stone Age because they ran out of stones; they learned healthy, effective, efficient ways of solving problems, resolving conflict, and creating a just society. God had nothing to do with it.
